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Poster: reviewr Date: Jun 2, 2011 7:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Donna's Paycheck

This may be crass...
I don't really know, but I imagine that the band split tour profits evenly amongst each other.

Do you think Donna got payed the same as Jerry?!

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Poster: ducats Date: Jun 4, 2011 5:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

and how much do we think each band member got per show - 10k?

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 2, 2011 8:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

If so, the Godchaux made double from each tour.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 2, 2011 8:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

I believe, like w/ Brent & Vince, they made less. No merchandising money to begin with. Ultimately, on a money level, hired help. The Marin Mafia ya'know ...

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 2, 2011 11:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

But if you don't count the other sources of income and just look at tour income, did they split evenly? How else would they do it?

Possible scenarios: "Sorry, Brent, but the rest of us are grandfathered in"? "Sorry, Phil, but we do more Jerry and Bob songs -- here's your little extra bit from this fall's Passengers"? "Well, T.C. and Pigpen, there's only one paycheck for the keys. Here, talk amongst yourselves." "Actually, Bob, Jerry IS more important. Sorry!"

Easier and more in keeping with the general approach to go even steven. But then, how to handle the Godchaux math ...

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Jun 3, 2011 6:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

Making money didn't appear to be the driving force behind the Grateful Dead in the seventies, Bill Graham however was a different story.

The Dead were experts at losing money which drove several decisions regarding tours and record deals all of which was redefined in 1975 and early 1976 from the lessons of the "Wall". Weekly salaries were modest in those days, expenses on the road were provided and most additional coin was put back into the production, equipment etc.

When you consider the size and scale of Grateful Dead Productions and Bill Graham Presents in the 80's and 90's as the production grew so did the expenses from front office staff to road crew etc. so the democratic method was salary plus bonus unless you were lucky enough to have side projects or publishing royalties. The real money didn't arrive until after "Touch". It's amazing to consider how fast $50 Million gross dollars can be spent.

If you would care to support the Godchaux foundation there is a remastered version of Keith and Donna CD and Album available for a mere $64.95 from Vinyl Revolution.

http://www.vinylrevolution.com/album_B925877//

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 3, 2011 8:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

Yea, the Dead were never about money....

Rock Scully:

Q. Was there a favorite aspect to managing the Grateful Dead?

A. I'd say establishing their publishing. In the old days, songs were three minutes long and artists got paid by number of tracks, not length of songs. We were first to record longer songs and got screwed on deals only paying for six to seven songs, instead of 12-14. So I spoke to [Monterey] Jazz Festival musicians, who told me they got paid per minute. I then renegotiated, making a state-of-the-art deal everyone copied.

"Quadlibet for Tender Feet" anyone? Ice-Nine indeed (RIP Kurt and Jerry)
http://www.carmelmagazine.com/digital/index.shtml

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 3, 2011 6:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

That's interesting. I would think at least by the late 80's Brent was getting what the rest were.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 3, 2011 7:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

We need someone with extensive post '87 knowledge (that could be you!). I believe Brent asked to become a full member of the band in a financial sense. By this time he had been in the band 11 years and felt he deserved his full piece, especially since his emergence by '89 as a driving force during shows. He was refused at some point in the spring or summer of '90. I want to say post summer tour. As far as Vince, he was definitely hired help and seemed to be content with his place in the band.

Any LiA's or CH's post '87 out there?

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 3, 2011 8:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

Thanks for this. As for Vince, you are right. In one of the books (Macnally's maybe) he was actually shocked (in a good way) at what the band was giving him. Didn't make up for the band giving him a broom closet as a dressing room in some arenas but....

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Jun 3, 2011 7:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

For that specific information you'd have to go "very deep inside" somewhere close to Cameron Sears or Eileen Law and up the ladder from there. That, BTW is a short ladder.

Since GDP was not a publicly held Corp they did a good job of keeping those cards close to the vest, so-to-speak. I doubt that even Hal Kant had complete access.

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Poster: leftwinger57 Date: Jun 3, 2011 6:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

Look w/o first hand knowledge I don't think we'll know for shure.My opinion is yes both her and Keith got paid as eveyone else.This is only going by the old hippy standard we take care of the entire family.The more interesting thing to me is the fact that you could be in a band for years and fo whatever reason leave. So in comes new guy , hired help gunslinger and not even noticed. A few examples bass player for Bon Jovi,bass player for the Stones, bass for the WHO and for you metal freaks the bass player for Metallica.Ever notice whenn shots of the band are displayed these dudes are not in any shot. These guys are very rarely introduced and I'll bet all the change in my pocket they clearly do not get an even share, more like union scale.I remember a documentary on Mtetallica and their search for their new bass player and this dude was offerred a million flat for a world tour. Sounds good until you find out the other guys are pulling 10x that amount.Fair,well whose to say a jobs a job but maybe you can at least introduce your new band mate.
I actually used to know these guys names but it all escapes me now.

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Jun 2, 2011 8:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

Do you think Donna had as many balls up in the air as jer?

Not intending to be a dick about it, but when you bring into focus all of jerrys sources of revenue such as artist, filmmaker, performer, publisher, recording artist, songwriter etc... it's tough to even begin to compare based on the overall dynamic that he presented to the production.

They obviously paid her enough do-rae-me so that she was comfortable enough to stick around, yes?

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Poster: deadheadnorway Date: Jun 3, 2011 8:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck / Vince.

I remember clearly that I was reading somewhere (slips my mind where) that Vince got the same as the other guys in the band. If he did, then imagine how it was back in the more free-spirited seventies, so sure Donna got the same as Jerry when it comes to tour profits.

On a side note: I also remember reading that Vince went a bit flashy with his money/new found fortune (buying a gold watch and showing it of to everyone etc.), and that made some resentment in the Dead camp.

Again I don`t remember where I read this, but if my memory serves me right, it was in a interview with someone right after Vince`s death.



This post was modified by deadheadnorway on 2011-06-03 15:25:07

This post was modified by deadheadnorway on 2011-06-03 15:33:54

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 3, 2011 8:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck / Vince.

We don't know. It's all conjecture. I will bet a large sum that Vice was not privy to some revenue streams, i.e. the biggie merchandising. No doubt he made a pretty penny just playing live.

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Poster: deadheadnorway Date: Jun 3, 2011 8:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck / Vince.

I found this article, which is not the interview I mentioned in my earlier post. But it explains how the money were divided when Vince was a member:

"The famously egalitarian band offered Welnick almost full participation in the concert revenues, merchandise and other partnership holdings, rather than simply taking him on as a sideman. At the time, the Dead was the most popular rock group in the country, pulling down more than $50 million a year at the box office. His earnings soared. He started wearing tie-dye. He bought a Mexican vacation home."

(http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-06-30/entertainment/17300495_1_vince-welnick-grateful-dead-dead-keyboardist/4)

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Poster: Judge TOOTMO Date: Jun 3, 2011 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck / Vince.

heh, heh, heh. I was reading it and thinking this is the most disjointed, blog-esque journalism I have ever read. THEN, I noticed I was starting from page 4. Sorry, SFGate, for all those nasty thoughts about your skill.

Nice find, my Nordic buddy. You have been a nice infusion of some fresh blood around here. Keep on keepin' on.

TOOTMO

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Jun 3, 2011 3:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck / Vince.

Your first impulse wasn't that far off base.

"But an announced reunion of all four remaining original members of the Dead at a two-day rock festival in Alpine Village, Mich?" Ask DeadHeadWisconsin where Alpine Valley is located. That's sloppy work for any reporter.

Selvin is notorious for quoting a source and not striving to identify the origin of information from the source. The Dead did use the SF Chronicle from time to time for marketing purposes.

Joel Selvin, Chronicle Senior Pop Music Critic, indeed!

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 3, 2011 9:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck / Vince.

>Selvin is notorious for quoting a source and not striving to identify the origin of information from the source.

Just FYI, if you quote a source -- e.g., have something between quote marks -- the source is the person after the word 'said.' E.g., "The world is coming to an end on May 21," said Harold Camping. You don't then, as a journalist, try to find out Harold Camping's source and check with it. ("Sorry, editor, I put in a call to God to say if he REALLY said that, but he hasn't gotten back.")

I think what you mean to charge is that the writer has a reputation for repeating information without checking the source. Dunno if that's true, but that's what you mean, I think.

Weird about "Alpine Village," though ... I mean, that's the kinda thing you pull from a press packet or by googling, so how can you get THAT wrong? What surprises me is that no one in the newsroom spotted that error and corrected it online. Apparently no one in the community called, either. In SF?!?

Other than the Alpine Village Dumbo Moment, though, it seems like a well-written and thoroughly researched story to me. And very, very sad. Poor Vince. Poor everyone who dealt with him as he collapsed. A no-win situation. Or if there was a way to win, no one found it. Thanks for sharing this, Norway.

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Jun 4, 2011 4:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck / Vince.

The famously egalitarian band offered Welnick almost full participation in the concert revenues, merchandise and other partnership holdings, rather than simply taking him on as a sideman.

"Almost" is vague, if this information was delivered to Selvin from the lips of the other living board members Lesh, Weir, Hart, Kruetzmann; Sears or Law, then fine, but they wouldn't have revealed that specific private information to Selvin.

In my opinion there are a couple of credible journalist's writing about the history of the Grateful Dead, Dennis McNally, David Gans and Blair Jackson come to mind. Sometimes i have to challenge Rock Scully's memory and his focus on selling books, but he indeed was at the party for 20 long years and survived.

Their information is delivered from the lips of the performers or immediate staff and eye-witness accounts from their personal experiences.

In terms of journalistic integrity third party information should be validated. Knowledge is based on experience, everything else is just information.

I stand on my statement, thanks for weighing-in.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jun 4, 2011 7:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck / Vince.

Except that you didn't understand what I said. I just gave you the definition of a quote. That's all :-)

Incidentally, McNally isn't/wasn't a journalist. He was the band's PR guy. That means he's the guy journalists would talk to in order to gain access, verify info, etc. The "almost" info is fairly likely to have come from McNally, along with lots of other stuff in Selvin's story.

Trust me, if journalists had to write "according to the public relations person" every time a PR guy was the source of info, stories would double in length ...

Btw, Rock Scully isn't a journalist, either. (I'm sure you didn't mean that, LOL.) The book was written with David Dalton, who is indeed a journalist (but presumably wasn't verifying for it, because it's a memoir). That's why it reads so well, of course. Rock's colorful memories plus Dalton's "gonzo journalism" style.

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2011-06-05 02:48:15

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Jun 5, 2011 4:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck / Vince.

Sharp mind, good points, well taken. Author didn't appear to be appropriate language, how many publications does one need to publish to earn the title of journalist?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/05/29/PKA51JIDAP.DTL

Here's a link to a recent interview with Weir from the Chronicle. Check out the photoshop figure of Lesh, almost what his wax museum character will look like one day.

There's also a hint from the source at the end of the article regarding Weir's costume habit. Back in the "Touch" days he would wear a wig just to drive from his house down the hill to the village.



This post was modified by dark.starz on 2011-06-05 23:42:27

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Poster: reviewr Date: Jun 3, 2011 6:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck / Vince.

Interesting article. Seems to strongly suggest that Donna did get paid the same as eveyone else - doesn't seem right to me.

For Vince to want to get together so badly with the band is both kind of funny and sad. I think most of us would agree that of the keyboard players he was the one who had the hardest time getting into the flow of the music. I guess he didn't see that.

The "Alpine Village, Mich." line makes me wonder if one can believe anything here.

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Poster: adks12020 Date: Jun 3, 2011 6:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Donna's Paycheck

I'm just making this up but I bet the main members (Jer, Bob, Mickey, Billy, Phil) of the band made roughly the same amount of money for shows and merch. I bet Keith and Donna split Keith's share, which I would imagine wasn't much less if at all. I mean she really only sang on a few songs a show but Keith played on everything and was a major part of their sound. Maybe they gave her a small share but I doubt they paid her as much as the core band members. She was a back up singer.